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ALIEN OR ALLIED continued …

October 17, 2013

I have decided to add the comments to this essay as an essay, because often times the readers never see the wealth and value of these.

Beginning with my essay, my added comments, then what Alfred shared and on through …


Recently someone shared with me the pope’s opinion of the role of the female in his church. He asked my opinion on this. Well, for starters, the pope’s understanding of CHURCH has been different than mine. This, and a multitude of other reasons keeps me not Catholic. But in order to keep this essay brief, I will comment only on the placing of service and servitude. 

the article:

It has to do with intent, really. The pope has just now solicited a perimeter. In this, he designates female to a genre of set place–service. No Spirit Gifts reside within service alone. He has–in ESSENCE–denounced female servitude. Instead of celebrating the fabric of She … he had instituted a bond of dereliction.

Too bad for RC Mary … but thank God Mary is not “Roman Catholic.”

L Thiel comments added:

 I would like to add a bit more–this having to do with the paradox of placement within Servitude.Service is a personal choice of endeavor, which may or may not serve the Presence of Light. It is contingent on the understanding that Light is the Essence within the placement … where a person lives and breathes. Servitude is the necessity of the continuum of Spirit Presence within work, or the Work. It aligns with Light in a manner applicable to God Purpose. What I was demonstrating to the reader in my essay is that Mary within the context of this pope’s message to his members reduces her to a Martha, or possibly less (not implying that a Martha is bad, for the Mary/Martha biblical story is really a story of two hands: right and left). He challenges the members to believe that his church is mother, but he misses the mark by his own allegations of hierarchal supremacy and doctrine. Mother does not exist where she cannot be found. Statues and ikons are reminders of the possibility of mother, but do not serve of equal measure in the paradox. These are things, not Spirits. Spirit can only unite where it is of intimate Love. Mary’s Mary, or Miriam in the understanding … is living, uniting, growing … which does include persecution at times, and the Sorrow, as well as the Joy. This is sorely missed and misunderstood in Mary’s epitaph on Love–in religion.Peace and Love

Good morning. I thought of something else that applies here. Let’s take Maximilian Kolbe as an example of one in service to a religious denomination having moved into servitude. Saint Maximilian chose to become a Franciscan Friar and be of service to a sect within this organization. He promoted set agenda based on his opinions, thoughts, ideologies, which aligned with much of what RC advocates. He was no different than a woman serving as teacher in a parochial school. Some paid attention to what he taught, some did not. But this man moved into a calling of servitude during the war. In number of days, this was brief, especially compared to those who spend a lifetime serving vocationally in a church or ministry, but [this], a SERVITUDE, was such that it “raised him from the dead” … so to speak, and transformed him, untying, then uniting him with Spirit for a juncture that inspires and generates Life AFTER his passing within the flesh. If you read ancient wisdom texts such as The Ladder of Ascent or The Philokalia, or some gnostic texts, the understanding is that we, no matter where we serve, live in darkness (a sort of death), and we are to yearn for Light. This is continuous, an ever-growing stimulation toward holiness–a wine coming into Essence to be served at a certain time–God’s Time. His days were numbered–much like Jesus–but his wine was of the Essence of the Spirituality of Christ (see Galatians 5:22-25), and is LIVING beyond those few days.In addition, it was no secret that Saint Maximilian was a lover of Mary. Although his desire in this love was still in infancy, the generosity and truthfulness in heart “served him” in his last days on earth, for he BELIEVED in something beyond his service as friar, which, combined with something that I believe was preordained for his coming Station (after his earth life) … moved him forward, and into Sainthood, which is a uniting with Angel.Man in his understanding of God is still in infancy. It is time he move forward.Peace and LoveA

We are very important in our Faith.2. I am Catholic and I am conservative and have not been too thrilled with this pope thus far but this makes me boiling mad. This little “speech” is patronizing and down right degrading to women. And the pope’s attempts to sweeten it up with statements like “the church is a mother” make me want to tell him…. (expletive)3.I don’t think that the Millennial generation has the same bias against women that the Church historically has. In fact I think as more women are graduating from college than men now we will quickly see the tide changing in that way. You don’t have to lose femininity to work- indeed I wonder what “femininity” even means in this day and age. We can drag race cars, do sports, don’t necessarily cook, and many are choosing to be married but not have children, or if we do, we have the men stay at home. The world is changing, the church will either change with it or die.4.Our women are our strength. From the Blessed Mother, all the way to every woman in the Church who chooses to lead by example, to be mothers, wives, and yes leaders in the community. Let’s not forget our many women saints, some of whom are our greatest saints, such as St Therese of Liseaux, St Faustina, Catherine of Sienna. Let’s not forget that the Church is a union, the “Bride of Christ” and as such absolutely needs women. I see women in the Church who are leaders, who lead many of our ministries and have a strong voice.

5.WHAT is so remarkable about this statement? He said women aren’t servants and are important to the church? Are you kidding me this is just a fact? Why are people like “aww I like what he is saying”? Are you serious it’s like saying “the sky is blue” and then people thinking you said some remarkable thing. Women have the ability to carry a child and have a child in my opinion that’s the most powerful thing anyone could do. Also if the pope states theta women are equal in the church then why can’t a woman be a priest? This religion will be dead in 100 years.

6.Christianity is the only religion to liberate women. The ancient Greeks considered women second class citizens. Pagan cultures and religions the same. Today, the historically Judeo-Christian nations have the most liberated women on the planet. The Bible’s New Testament recognizes and specially names women who were very influential in the body of Christ. The epistles tell men to love their wives and treat them with respect. Historically this was very radical and out of the norm. It is only people who hate God and what is good who spread false information about Christianity.

7. I have to reply to the words of Pope Francis. I treasure my family and my role as mother.
Frankly my favorite saints are women (mostly mystics) who accomplish great things. They don’t lose their their feminine characteristics just because they aren’t mothers. In my family, women are leaders in their fields. One of my daughters will soon be a PHD in Religion another is a leader in the field of nutrition working with government agencies to make our children healthier. She is also a PHD. I have a daughter who raises millions of dollars for the arts. I do not consider them to be taking the place of men. They are good at their jobs and use their intelligence. They don’t look or act like men. Of course I am proud that they chose fields that involve doing good for others. My point is that the church could benefit from having women in leadership roles and not just some of the traditional roles as helpers. Someone who is active in our parish (in my Bible class) says that the parish is basically run by women. Her idea is that women are doing this and they don’t need to be recognized as such. I see this as the old idea that men are the head of the house but we really know who runs things. I was a wife married in the fifties. My husband certainly took his head of the house role seriously. I can’t count the number of ways I worked around it. It is not good for a marriage and not great for the church. Accept the fact that we are equal, capable and intelligent and respect for women will be real and recognized.

8.Finally a pope that is open and encouraging new ideas in the Catholic Church and the world in general. His thoughts on so many formerly taboo subjects shows that this leader of the Catholic Church gets it. Unfortunately people resist change so it will take more champions and more years for the significance or his thoughts now to be put into action. However baby steps have begun, I am inspired by this leader. He rocks.

9. I’ve admired many of Francis’ statements these past few months, but he lost me on the stereotyping of women with the phrase “the very femininity that characterizes them.”

Neither women or men were meant to be gender role-players. We’re all individuals, who (if we allow ourselves) bring our own unique gifts to the human table. That’s what Creation is all about.

We’re all at different points on the scale of “masculine . . . feminine.” We need to be allowed to find our own “home” within that scale, whatever our birth gender. Only then can we use our talents to make our full contribution to our society.

In short, Francis: when it comes to Life, one size does *not* fit all. You’ve already shown you understand that in your remarks about gays and non-Catholics. I hope you’ll continue to do so when it come to gender.

10. Are you kidding me…women in the church from the earliest times have been leaders, educators and health care providers. If it weren’t for Elizabeth Seton, the Catholic School system as we know it would not exist. If it weren’t for women like Catherine McAuley, foundress of the Sisters of Mercy, health care in the United States would have been very different starting from the first Mercy Hospital in Pittsburgh. The current Pope is placating women once again….why can’t women be ordained as priests and deacons, that surely will allow them a role of service to the Church!

11. It was Mary and Mary Magdalene that stayed by Christ’s feet during his death. The men left and they have been trying to make up for it ever since. I believe we have a quiet strength in the church. We create and maintain the fabric of society. Men will sink as low as we let them. Let them have their vestments and altars. We bring forth life and they can’t compete with that. I’d just like to see that valued and appreciated in general.

12. As a Catholic priest myself I feel that women will not lose their “femininity” if they are “emancipated” whatever the Pope sees that term to mean. Women are equal to men and should receive the same places in the church that men have, deacon, priest, bishop, if they want them. As St. Paul said, “…there is no male or female, Jew or Greek, slave or free, all are one in Christ.” That being said, I do find hope in our new Pope!

FOLLOWER comment:

Just a comment on the role of women in the church and Pope Francis. I had lost confidence in the church. Especially after the phedophilia incident . I saw the election of Cardinal Bergolio fascinating, but I almost fell out of my chair after I heard the name he chose for his papacy! If you watch and study why the Popes pick the names they do, you will find what doctrine or way he will follow. What his papacy is going to be like. St Francis, left his life of wealth and comfort to serve God and the poor. He started from the very first day to do just so. No red shoes , no new gown, but one used by another Pope, he had re-fitted for him. And other things that was ” expected” for the Popp to follow. All this things created quite an uproar. He has already form a committee to deal with the pedophlic priests that are sort of hiding out in the Vatican and elsewhere. He is just starting. Cardinal Bergolio, mow Pope Francis, has to take his time and follow certain steps , in order to do the changes he wants and change things. So far he has created quite an uproar within the the Curia! He has to be careful. Remember what happened to Pope John Paul l! Andany of us pray for his safety! So , although he is not afraid of death, those who believe that he can and will do many wonderful changes that the church needs . So , we wait, and watch the first Pope that had truly discarded pomp and riches and loves and works for all people and the poor. This are my thoughts . I have recover my faith in the church and like many like pray for a wonderful man of God , that is driven to help everyone and to care for the poor in spirit andometary, notated race or culture .
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